Wild Divine

An Interview with Alela Diane

Photography by Anna Caitlin Harris

The following interview was transcribed from a conversation held in summer of 2022, and has been edited for length.

Cate Clother: You have a few new singles out, including “Paloma” and “Howling Wind.”  “Howling Wind” was created in response to the challenging years we've been collectively enduring. Can you describe the process you went through in writing and composing this moving piece?

Alela Diane: I wrote these songs over the past few years. We moved a year ago and I recorded that right as we were moving. This one, there’s a line about the wildfire smoke, and I wrote a lot of this in the thick of one of those really bad west coast fires. It mentions a lot of current events—things in the world that were happening. I had actually written the melody on guitar with a whole different set of words, and I really liked the melody but with those words it just wasn’t what the song wanted to be. And then during a smoky event in Portland the new words just started coming. I had this melody already—I sat down and played it on piano instead of guitar, and the song really arrived at that point. It was also during the Black Lives Matter protests in Portland, and what we’d been going through with the pandemic and everything, really trying to take it one day at a time and endure. It’s been a hard chapter.

Cate: Juxtaposing that song with the video of you and your daughter spinning around, what brought that imagery to your mind?

Alela: That imagery is something I did myself. It’s about how you have to take it one day at a time and dance through all of the chaos and find joy amidst all of the bad news that is happening. How can we hold onto the sweetness and the good, and keep our children safe? That’s what inspired me—how do we dance through it? How do we get through it?

Cate: What role does family play in the music you make?

Alela: The chapter of life that I’m in right now is all encompassing—being the mother of young children. I’ve always been someone who writes about whatever I’m going through at the time, and right now all of the music that I make and everything that I’m doing is a response to this chapter of life that I’m living through. So it does sneak in constantly, because my songs are my stories and they are a way of processing the life I’m currently living. Every album is just a little snippet of the chapter that I was living through in that moment. Maybe when I’m an older lady I’ll have other things to say–the wisdom that I’ve gained as a grandmother or something—but for now family definitely is a huge part of my life and my creative life as well.

Cate: I know this is a bit of a cliché question at this point, but I'm going to ask it anyway! How do you sustain your artistic career in the midst of a busy life as a mother of two young children?

Alela: I think it’s about carving out intentional space. It’s about just showing up in the studio. When I was writing this album, from 2019 through the spring of 2020, I was just juggling everything with my husband. He was working during the day, and the kids didn’t have school because school was canceled due to Covid, so I would go out to the studio after he got back home and work for a couple of hours before dinner, and take a little bit of time. I couldn't fully put my creative life on the back burner because I was in the middle of trying to write a record when the pandemic hit. It was just about carving out intentional time and making space for it even when there wasn’t really space for it.

The following fall we did a pod school with our kids and I would just go out to my studio during school hours. So every day I would drop the kids off and go out and sit there and see what happened and try and fumble around. Some days were very unproductive and some days I would write a song, or I would write part of a song. If you don’t create that space, nothing happens. You’re not just going to stumble into it if there’s no intentional arriving and showing up at your work space. Through parenting, that’s what I have to do, is make time. It’s much less free flowing than it was before children. I used to just feel inspired and pick up my guitar at any time of day or night or whenever! But it’s a different kind of working now—you have to show up in order for the muse to show up.

Cate: You can’t just wait for inspiration.

Alela: You can’t wait for it or it’s not gonna happen. You’re just gonna be making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich instead.

Cate: What brought you to Portland, Oregon from Nevada City, California? How is your landscape reflected in your music?

Alela: I grew up in Nevada City and then I moved to San Francisco for a couple of years for college, although I did not finish college. I went to San Francisco State for a few years and then moved back to Nevada City for about a year. And then I ended up in Portland and eventually settled there for good. I bought a house in Portland in 2009. After losing my childhood home when my parents divorced in my early 20s, I had a real loss around that. I never had a home really to go back to after my parents split up. For me, buying that house really felt like a big settling and a way of recreating what was lost and having a sense of home.

Being from California, that landscape holds my heart and I’m always reflecting back on it in my songs. But the landscape and the weather of Portland has been very inspiring to me. I love the outdoors and I love beautiful weather and everything, but I think the long rainy season in Portland really creates this cozy vibe where I want to sit and write. I don’t know, it’s continued making sense. We moved about a year ago into another very old house, but a new place to us. It’s on a half acre so I have space again, and I think that’s something I really lost when I left California. I grew up in a small town in the country, with that rambling feeling of growing up in a small place. We’re still in Portland but we have a bit more space around our house, and I look out my windows and I only see trees, so I’ve regained that sense of home. We’re going to be here for a very long time. My dad’s house almost burned down last summer, outside of Nevada City. The wildfire literally burned up to his back fence and melted things that were on the inside of his fence, the house was saved by the firefighters. I think that’s the biggest reason I haven’t moved back there, which is really tragic. The fire thing has been one of the main reasons I never moved back there.

Cate: Your recent live album, Live at the Map Room, was recorded during the lockdown and performed live with no audience. What prompted this impulse? What was that experience like for you?

Alela: Actually, it was recorded in December of 2018. I just sat on it forever! My friends and bandmates, Heather Woods Broderick and Mirabai Peart, and I had been on tour in 2018 as a trio and those were all the songs we were performing. Our last show was in Portland, and closed out that year of touring. We had been to Europe, we had played shows along the west coast, we had done so many shows together, so after the Portland show I said, “We have to capture this sound that we’re doing!” And we hadn’t recorded any of the live shows so we just went into this little studio in Portland run by a guy named Josh Powell called The Map Room. We went in there and we essentially just played our show. We played it for no one, but it was live performances of the songs with the three of us playing together. I think we did two takes of every song but we just played them straight through. There was no fussing or real editing or anything—it was just us playing the show we had just got off the road with. I wanted to capture that because it was really beautiful playing with those two women.

The choice to have no audience wasn’t really a choice, it was more like “Hey, we should record this thing that we’ve been doing.” I had intended to release it sooner, but when the pandemic hit and school was canceled, everything just flew out the window. I had been sitting on these recordings and I listened back and thought we needed to put it out. It’s songs from across my repertoire and I’m really proud of the live performances. I hope to be touring with Heather and Mira again for the upcoming record.

Cate: Yeah! You have “Oh, My Mama” and “Bowling Green” and some older songs on there—it’s lovely to hear you sing them again. Can you tell us a bit about your roots as a musician and your path towards contemporary folk music? What/who has inspired you along the way?

Alela: I became a musician because music was such a part of my childhood home. My parents were always playing songs in the kitchen, they played a lot of bluegrass music and folky songs and were always singing harmonies together, so that was just in me—in my bones. I picked up the guitar and learned a few chords in high school, but I really came into it on my own when I was 19. I started teaching myself how to play guitar through writing songs, so the two went hand in hand. It was such a big part of the way I grew up so it felt really natural to gravitate towards that.

Listening to the music my parents made was the biggest thing, but when I first started playing music I began discovering other more contemporary musicians. I was very inspired by Cat Power. She isn’t a super accomplished guitar player, and that gave me permission to not be an amazing player but to still be able to express myself and write songs. So I latched onto that idea. Then I discovered Kate Wolf, a California singer-songwriter who played in the late 70s and early 80s. My parents had sung some of her songs, but when I got a CD of hers in my early 20s there was something really magical about that. I love a lot of older music…Townes Van Zandt, Fairport Convention.

Cate: You were part of a very creative friend group in Nevada City, including Mariee Siou and Joanna Newsom. How was that for you as an aspiring musician?

Alela: Those are just the artists from Nevada City that people know about! It’s a really interesting town to be from because all these creative hippie types moved there in the late 70s and early 80s and then they all had kids. Our school system and our community was really supportive of the arts. Everybody was doing photography and art classes. I was in choir. The community was really supportive, so for all these kids who grew up there, creativity was just the normal thing. Everybody’s parents played music. It was normalized and very present.

Also the place we are from is very idyllic, beautiful, and inspiring, and as a kid growing up there it gives you the impression that the world is a beautiful place. It’s really sheltered because of that. I remember moving to San Francisco and being shocked by the rawness and the grit of the world because I hadn’t experienced anything like that before, growing up swimming in the river and walking down a street that looks like it’s from 1850 and everything is very quaint. So in a way, the world was very shocking after growing up in that town. But it gave all of us who grew up there the idea that life was beautiful and magical, and we could all put that into our craft. There’s so many musicians and creatives from that town who aren’t well known and who are still there! One of the artists that Mariee and I were very inspired by in our youth was this guy named Aaron Ross, and he’s still there and he’s writing amazing songs, but he’s very much an unknown.

Joanna was a couple grades older than us in high school, I didn’t know her then, but I grew up with her younger sister Emily, who was in the same class as me. I met Joanna in my early 20s and there were a lot of parties and summertime gatherings and things. I toured with her in 2015 and we actually really got to know each other then. Her oldest daughter is the same age as my younger daughter so our friendship blossomed when we both became moms.

Cate: Along with Joanna Newsom you’ve also played with Fleet Foxes, Michael Hurley, Iron & Wine, etc. Any memorable stories from these experiences you'd like to share? 

Alela: Michael Hurley’s a real character, I love doing shows with him. I’ve met him around many bends. I remember one time we were both at a festival in Scotland and Mariee was there too, so Mariee, Michael and I wandered around. I don’t even remember where we were, but there we were, overseas, wandering around with Michael. And I’ve seen him in the Pacific Northwest too, we played a show together in early 2020, I think that was the last show I played before the lockdowns. He’s a total character, I always love seeing him.

I just saw the Fleet Foxes play the other night and it brought back a lot of old tour memories. I had this funny moment where my daughter and I, we had been sitting way in the back, walked up towards the stage and we’re kind of up on a little hill, eye level with the band. They’re in the middle of the song and I saw Christian see me. It was a huge concert, there were thousands of people there. But I saw him look at me and he stopped playing guitar and waved! We were texting after the show and I said “Did you wave at me from stage?” And he was like, “Yeah, I saw you out there!” Our tour was so long ago now but it reminded me of all the first times I had met them out on the road, and it was just too funny.

 Cate:  I love your album Cold Moon, recorded with Ryan Francesconi. The song “Migration” is one of my favorites, and the video is absolutely beautiful—spare and elegant with that immense reverb of the cathedral space. How did you come to select that particular song to perform in that space?

Alela: I’m remembering back to that, and gosh, that was a really intense tour. I did a tour with Ryan and Mira. My husband came, he was mostly driving the van that we had rented, and we had our two year old daughter, Vera, with us. It was at the time of the terrorist attack on the Bataclan in Paris. We were playing a show that same night right outside of Paris, and it was really really intense and traumatizing to be performing so close to that, and we were crossing borders the next day and being grilled. They still hadn’t found out who had done that to the concert goers, and it just felt really raw and scary to be over there performing, and to have my little baby with us.

The “Migration” video performance was a couple of days after the terrorist attack. The videographer had come up with that venue. They invited us to perform and it just felt poignant and like the right choice in that moment. That was a long time ago now, but I remember the intensity of being over there during that time and performing. The video really captured that moment.

Cate: Yeah, the power of that emotion really comes through and I didn’t even know the back story. And to be singing in such a powerful space! Bonnie Prince Billy did a concert in a huge cave, and Sigur Ros also performed in an old, huge metal tank in Iceland. The resonance is just so powerful in those spaces and your video reminds me of those experiences.

Alela: Wow, yeah, it’s so inspiring to sing and perform in spaces that have natural reverb like that. While I was writing my first album, I was traveling around in hostels and hotels in stuff, and I remember I would sit in a stair well with my guitar and sing, because it’s just super inspiring when there is that natural reverb that you can find in echoey places like a stairwell or a cathedral or even just a tiled bathroom. It just feels good to sing when it’s echoing back to you. And that “Migration” video, that was happening and also there was just a lot of really raw emotion happening at that moment.

Cate: Your song “Take Us Back” appears on The Walking Dead video game soundtrack. This seems unexpected and interesting–how do you feel about your music being listened to in that context?

Alela: Well, sometimes weird things happen. Your publishing company reaches out and they’re like “Hey, these Walking Dead people want to use your song at the end of their video game, and they’re gonna pay you some money,” and you’re kind of like, “Huh, that’s weird! Someone wants to give me some money? Okay, sure!” I have no relationship with The Walking Dead, I’ve never seen the show, I’ve never played the video game. But apparently for people who are really into video games, it’s like really emotional and intense to have the zombie apocalypse happen, and then when my song comes on at the end, everyone reports that they’re just sobbing, and they see the character die, and it’s just really intense. So that song has an emotional meaning for anyone who has played that game, or who relates to that. So yeah a lot of people have discovered my music because of that, and I’m sure they just mostly love that song because they have a specific memory of it and what it meant for them.

Also in this day and age, musicians are not very well compensated for their work–we have a product but the product doesn’t have value anymore. I think the term “selling out” isn’t a thing anymore, because musicians are just trying to survive. It’s not like you’re getting some huge payout or anything either, it’s like, “Oh, my music has value in this context,” so you say yes because you’re trying to make a living and you want to continue to be able to make music for a living. So when those opportunities come and you get paid for something, you say yes, absolutely.

Cate: It’s funny to think of people discovering you through The Walking Dead! Kind of like the sudden discovery of Kate Bush through Stranger Things. But it’s great that this music is now in the public eye. This leads into my next question: What is relevant/meaningful to you about folk music, and its place in the world today?

Alela: I think that the tradition of it, just a voice and an instrument and the storytelling, it’s timeless, and that’s something that I really appreciate about it and that I come back to. I dunno, for whatever reason I always come back to music in its simplest form—there’s no fuss about it. Obviously I do make records that have percussion and strings and other things, and it’s fun to go beyond that as well, but I think for me that term “folk music” means storytelling, and my songs are always these narratives that I’m telling. That’s probably why I feel like my music fits in that category maybe more than any other category, because it continues on that storytelling tradition.

Cate: The world needs more storytellers, that’s for sure. Of your many songs, do you have one that you are most proud of?

Alela: Of my older songs, “The Rifle” was a really interesting song to write because it came out of a dream. I essentially dreamed the song and then I woke up really early and wrote out all the lyrics. I was staying in a hostel in the south of France and I woke up in a half-dream state, I wrote all these words, I fell back asleep, and then I woke up again and I played the song, and it was just there. So that always stuck with me. It’s a song that was written about the home that I grew up in, but as I’ve grown older and sang it more and more it has all these other meanings as well. And it’s been interesting to observe how a song can start in one place and be personal, but then to see that it’s actually bigger than that and it can totally take on other meanings. That’s the song that really did that for me.

I’m also very proud of some of the songs on the new record, it definitely feels like they are important songs for this time in the world.

Cate: Any songs that were particularly challenging for you to write, perform, or record?

Alela: Some songs are a little bit stubborn. There’s a couple songs I was going to record for this album that I didn’t, because they didn’t quite arrive in themselves, even if the idea was there, and maybe I’ll come back to those songs. Maybe they’ll be on the next record because they’ve been able to come into themselves more. There have definitely been a few that are stubborn!

Cate: What challenges did you face as a woman entering the music industry? Do you have any tips or encouragement for emerging women and nonbinary artists, especially artists with children?

Alela: I think the hardest thing about being a woman in the music industry is that there’s always someone who’s newer than you, and younger than you, and putting out a first record. So it’s like you’re easily replaceable to some extent. I mean, you're actually not, but it can feel like that. I’ve been dropped from a lot of record labels—they have big hopes for you, it’s your second record, it’s your third record, there’s potential, and then maybe you just don’t reach that benchmark for them, you don’t sell enough records, and you get cast aside. And then they sign an artist who’s 20. Every festival has a couple of spots available for  the “folky girl,” and there's a lot of folky girls. So it’s really easy for you to be replaced by someone who’s a younger, newer, hipper version of that.

I think that despite all of that you just have to keep doing it, keep it up, keep making space for yourself, and keep doing it even if the industry tells you that they don’t want to release your record. You just have to keep doing it. And the same goes for having kids. You have kids and then you slide even farther in [the industry’s] eyes, because the perception is that you won’t be able to tour as much and you'll be held back—your kids will be your priority and you won’t be able to do the hustle as much as someone younger is able to. And while that may be somewhat true, I mean, yes, I’m not gonna go on a seven week tour and leave my family for seven weeks! No, I can’t do that. But I can go on a three week tour and I will. I will show up, and I will do the work, I will do my job, and I will sing. I will keep doing this.

But yeah, I think the industry definitely tries to tell you that you’re done, and you just have to keep making music and keep believing in yourself despite that. It’s not easy, many times I’ve considered going back to school or figuring out something else to do because it doesn’t feel like the most stable career choice to be honest, especially as I get older. I’m 39, and it feels like there’s always that risk of being cast aside even farther because the music industry tells you that just as much as your music is important, what you look like is important too. And that’s really fucked up. So we just have to keep pushing up against that and keep showing up. There are plenty of older women who have continued to show up and make awesome music and I will keep trying to do that. There’s also plenty of people who give up because it is really hard. Either is a valid choice to be honest!

Cate: I was reading the other day that there’s so few acting roles available for women between the ages of like, 35 to like 65.

Alela: I was gonna say that! Yeah, in music it’s hard in the 40 to 60 range, once you get past 60 you’re like the cool old grandma lady.

Cate: Like Bonnie Rait!

Alela: She’s super cool! But until then, our society really shuns middle age for some reason. I’m just on the brink of that and I don’t know what it’s going to be like as I continue to age and as I look older. I think that at 39 you can still sort of fake your youth a little bit, not like I should want to do that or have to do that, but the impression you’re given is that you need to do that. I dunno, we’ll see how it goes!

But for now I have made a sixth record, and I am still doing this, and yeah, it’s not easy. I think my advice for other women and nonbinary artists is to just keep doing the work, keep being creative, and do not let anyone dim your light and tell you that you should stop. And they’re not gonna say stop, they’ll just drop your contract and make it really hard for you to keep doing the work. That’s what happens. And you need to find the people who are willing to support you, regardless of that bullshit. Those are the people you want on your team, the people who are gonna believe in you when you’re releasing a sixth album and not a debut album. They’re harder to find.